In this episode of B The Way Forward, Brenda Darden Wilkerson sits down with Anu Bhardwaj to explore the remarkable journey of her daughter Aria and the creation of Crypto for Kids and the Xconomy platform. What began as an educational initiative teaching children about cryptocurrency grew into a global movement, connecting young learners to technology, financial literacy, and digital skills. From presenting at the United Nations to training students in the Caribbean, Anu and Aria demonstrate how creativity, curiosity, and the courage to ask “what if” can spark transformational change.
The conversation also delves into the challenges of navigating setbacks, including a failed partnership that threatened their app, and how resilience, transparency, and a strong sense of purpose guided them through. Anu emphasizes the importance of cultivating a clear “why,” leveraging collaboration, and empowering others through digital skilling and educational tools. Listeners are inspired by lessons on leadership, ethics, and the impact of technology when paired with empathy, alongside actionable advice for founders and changemakers seeking to turn bold ideas into reality.
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Our guests contribute to this podcast in their personal capacity. The views expressed in this interview are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Anita Borg Institute for Women and Technology or its employees (“AnitaB.org”). AnitaB.org is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of the information provided in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. This podcast series does not constitute legal or other professional advice or services.
Episode Transcript
Anu: The app wasn’t working. The company itself wouldn’t respond to messages. And then they’re like, we need to talk to our lawyer. That’s when I knew that there’s a problem.
Brenda: You know that scene in a movie, just before everything starts to go wrong? When it slowly starts to dawn on the hero that they’re in trouble? Well, that’s exactly what Anu Bhardwaj was experiencing the moment she realized that her app, Krypto 4 Kids, had vanished from the App Store.
Anu: We would always demo it to people. We would share it. And I saw on Apple Store that it’s not pulling up.
Brenda: Now, K4K wasn’t just any app. It was a financial literacy tool for kids focused on digital currency that Anu had co-created with her then 7-year-old daughter Aria. Not long before this, Aria and her friends were on top of the world. They just presented at the UN about using crypto for social good. Now, the app was gone, their project was in limbo, and the company that backed them wouldn’t give them a straight answer.
Anu: I contacted the gentleman who built the app for us, and he had left the company because he knew something was wrong. And I had contacted the president of the company and I said, I don’t understand, like, you built this for the kids and like now it doesn’t work; everybody’s expecting to learn from this. She couldn’t tell me because she was bound by NDAs.
Brenda: Krypto 4 Kids had come together in just a few months and just as quickly—
Anu: The whole thing fell apart.
Brenda: And the story could have ended there. A startup that didn’t make it, it happens all the time for all sorts of reasons. But for Anu, this wasn’t just about the app. It was about a promise made to a group of kids.
Anu: I was upset about what this would teach our children. This thing was something that’s going to be transformational, change the world. And I’m like, how am I going to go back and tell them?
Brenda: That question is what turned this ending into a new beginning, because a few years later, a new project would rise from the ashes of the old one. A project sparked by concern for kids an ocean away who had it so much worse than Aria and her friends. And, a seemingly simple idea from Aria.
Anu: She said, well, we’ve got tokens in the crypto for Kids’ wallet, and we send it to them.
Brenda: In our final episode of season two, Anu Bhardwaj joins me to share the story of Krypto 4 Kids, what she learned from watching kids take the lead on tech literacy and policy, and the reason your why for starting a project needs to be the biggest why ever. Plus, for those of you who still don’t quite know what to make of this whole crypto thing, Anu’s got some practical and approachable advice for how to learn more. I’m Brenda Darden Wilkerson, and this is B The Way Forward. Coming up, my conversation with Anu Bhardwaj.
Well, I want to welcome Anu Bhardwaj to the show today. Welcome, Anu!
Anu: Thank you for having me.
Brenda: It is so exciting to see you. The last time I saw you in person, we were both in Abu Dhabi and you were telling me some amazing things. Folks, y’all are going to really enjoy getting to know Anu. Anu is a rock star. Anu has done so many things.
She obviously started when she was like six months old to get all of this in. I mean, it, it is amazing. You are self-described as a serial entrepreneur. You have founded so many startups across tech, travel, business development, so much more. First of all, congratulations. It’s so impressive. And how do you think you caught the, this founder bug?
Anu: I think it’s in your DNA, like, you learn from a young age that you’re going to be your own boss, and you just do it. Something gets planted in your head that you can build whatever you want to build. It’s up to you to create it if it doesn’t exist. And I think that’s what I’ve done throughout my whole journey is if it’s not there, why not create it? Why not be the one to do it?
And I think I’ve started from my college apartment. I, I wouldn’t say dorm room because I had a really nice apartment, and I had a little table there with a computer and I was like, I’m just going to sit here and this is going to be a starting point and I’m going to learn whatever I need to learn. But it was just like, instead of taking a class, why don’t I just feed it into a business and see where this will go? Because that’s the best learning I could ever get is trying something hands on.
Brenda: It’s amazing. I know very well that being a founder’s not easy. What kept you going when something maybe wasn’t going as planned or, or maybe even went sideways?
Anu: You really have to have a clear purpose and a clear vision on what you’re doing and why. And you’ve heard this so many times, people say, you know what your why is? And, and in my mind it’s like if we don’t create the tech that we need, who’s going to do it for us? It’s not going to happen. So really, we need to step up, especially as women of color or women from other parts of the world.
It’s like those that don’t have the opportunity, I think this is what drives me. If they could do it themselves, they would’ve by now, but they just didn’t have the circumstances. And part of this is brown girl guilt. And it’s, it’s a deep thing, and I’m going to address it now because if, if we were the same ones that were born in that situation, what would we do?
Brenda: Right.
Anu: And what would we want done for us? Because we would help so many if we had that opportunity. So I, I’ve seen it up front, up close. I’ve lived it. I’ve, I’ve been in front of it to like, it’s something that you can’t unsee and undo, it’s, it’s part of you. And then you just keep going. So, I think for me, the driving force is knowing that if I don’t do it, what’s going to happen. Just knowing that is enough.
Brenda: Right. I, I think that’s what’s so important that people like us are in this game because I know that a lot of the work and the initiatives that I have built was not necessarily because I had ever been in those situations, but I could have been. I related, it was close enough to me that I didn’t look at it and go, “Hmm, that’s so sad.” I was like, no, I have the ability to do something about it, or at least to try.
Anu: Correct.
Brenda: Let me try. And I would want somebody, if I were in the, in that situation to try for me, not out of pity, but just out of it is the right thing to do.
Anu: Correct.
Brenda: And you have chosen so many right things to do. And it is, it’s amazing. And we’re going to, we’re going to get into all of that. So, a big part of your career has also been focused on blockchain. What, what was your first introduction there to blockchain, to crypto? Would you call yourself an early adopter?
Anu: So, I, I, I gauge it by, “How much was Bitcoin when you invested?” I invested, I want to say when it was, $5,000 US dollars back in like 2017 timeframe, 2016, 2017. So, anyone who was investing at $5,000 to $10,000, which was like right around the pandemic time, is a early adopter, I wasn’t one of the earliest ones that was coming in at like $100 dollars or $200, like there was some noise. But I definitely would say earlier than where it is now though.
Brenda: So, I’m going to ask you sort of a two-part question. For people who don’t know as much about it, what makes it valuable to be involved in the crypto space? And then what are some of the common misconceptions that people might have heard about crypto?
Anu: Okay, so, I will, I will address this. I’m wearing my Krypto 4 Kids t-shirt, by the way.
Brenda: Awesome.
Anu: And we’re going to start at that level.
Brenda: Okay.
Anu: Because it’s got to be so simple that people want to either do it or be left out. The whole purpose of crypto was to equalize and bring a level playing field for people who want to invest. And as my daughter would put it, it’s digital money. You can buy things and they can be shipped to your door. It’s digital money, mama. That’s all it is. And their generation, if you look at the kids now, like some of them have never been to a bank, inside a bank, like you and I were used to setting up a savings account or something like that.
But the common question is, can you send me some Apple pay? Can I get Venmo? Like, that’s in their language? So, it’s, it’s one of these things now that you cannot afford to not participate in because the world has already gone digital. And if you choose not to participate in it, there may come a day where your dollar will not be accepted. Very soon in the near future. And they’ll show you this QR code and they’ll say, you can pay with your QR code. What are you going to do?
So, from that standpoint, if you’re afraid it’s because you haven’t done your homework. I would say, start with that minimum amount and invest now, because at some point you may have to pay a bill. That may be the only way you get a plane ticket out to wherever you need to go or buy groceries or whatever. It’s not going to happen now, it’s going to happen soon. And for certain parts of the world, they cannot depend on their own currencies. Their currencies are so volatile. So, this is becoming a necessity, but they need crypto because that’s the fast way of payments.
So, this is really a way that, you know, just given the, the way the world situation is, it’s just another way to put money aside. I actually had this woman that was doing my nails. And I said to her one day, can I just tip you in crypto? And she’s like, I’ve always wanted to learn how to do this. Like I’ve been hurt hearing so much about it. And I said, go on your phone and open up your Venmo. There’s actually a tab that says crypto, and you can invest for as little as five US dollars. You connect it to your bank account and you can watch the Bitcoin up and down.
And then when you get comfortable watching how this currency moves, you can put another $5 in. And then when you get comfortable, you can invest into other currencies. My advice to everybody is go as low as like a cup of coffee, and then I think that fear is going to go away. And also that learning by doing is going to increase, and then we’re all helping each other ride the wave. Because right now the people that are not in the game are missing out on the returns, which is people like you and I usually.
Brenda: Right, right. We won’t talk about that, you know what that segment of the population is, we’ll just let people guess.
Anu: Yeah.
Brenda: What segment that that is. But speaking of segments, that’s a great way for us to get into one of the amazing organizations that you created a project that you created called Krypto 4 Kids. And you know, being an educator, a past educator myself, I know that with tech, many times the kids will pick up on things that, that same segment we were just talking about.
Anu: Yes! Yes.
Brenda: Or slow, right, to jump in on. And so obviously that’s something that you were thinking about in 2018 when you launched this project to educate kids on crypto and how to use it. Can you talk some, tell us all about that and tell us where the idea came from? Everything.
Anu: Yeah, so this came on a, a work trip, a blockchain for impact at St. Kit’s and Neves. And I was invited to be a speaker at this conference. And I had to take my daughter, who was seven at the time, with, with the au pair on this business trip because it was summer holidays, I couldn’t leave them at home. So, I was building a digital wallet for women at the time called Chic Wallet. And one day my daughter got a hold of it and she said, “Mama, show me what you’re building, you’re spending all your time on this. I want to know what it is. Can I see it?”
So she opens up the phone, sees this women’s app, and she looks through and she goes, this is really cool, but what’s a crypto? And I said, well, it’s this new digital money, it’s. And she goes, nevermind, don’t, don’t tell me what it’s, I’m going to watch YouTube. She gets on YouTube and she starts watching the videos and she’s like, this is very, very confusing. How is anyone supposed to use your app if they don’t understand what it is? Like we have to make it simpler.
And I said, why don’t you come tomorrow and watch this presentation by Roger Ver who started bitcoin.com and then maybe you can tell me, help me explain this in a simpler way. So, we had Roger Ver give this talk, and after 45 minutes I said, what is he talking about? And she said, mom, it’s really simple. You can buy things from Amazon, it’s digital money, and they’ll ship it to your door. Can I have my own wallet please? Because I want to buy some things. And I said, Aria, they don’t make digital wallets for kids.
And she said, well, maybe you should start there because if the kids learn how to use this, then the moms will be forced to learn how to use this. Everyone’s going to learn. And, and I said, you mean like crypto for kids? She said, yeah, exactly. Crypto for kids. And so, I was like, so should I call all the moms that have kids and we’ll do a little conference? And she said that sounds like a good idea.
So, we decided to do it at the Montage Laguna Beach, which was across the street from where I lived in Cali a few years ago before the pandemic. And all the top people, all the top moms in crypto, including Crypto Chicks, Vitalik Buterin’s mom. She was also there and talking about why this is something that kids should start thinking about learning about for digital privacy and safety and. So, we had this little session, and that’s how it all started.
Brenda: Wow. I mean, and, and it’s amazing that your daughter was instrumental in something that has now touched so many different lives, right? And you, so you started this company, right?
Anu: Yes. Yes.
Brenda: And you, you know, tell us more about that.
Anu: So, Krypto 4 Kids came as an initiative that we did, and it was in collaboration with the State of Women Institute, which is a 501C3, and it was financial literacy as one of our pillars back then. And then we also had SHEQONOMI, which is what exists now. So, this whole project was how do we educate the next generation about crypto, but we’re doing it from the tech side. So, they actually built their own Bitcoin mining rig from scratch.
So, we got these computer parts and there were 10 kids from age five until like 17 that were building. And we did this on stage, we recorded it, and it was a way for them to not be afraid of tech, number one. And then their moms were talking to them about why privacy is important, why data is important. All of this like around not just the tech, but you have all these aspects. And so, each of these kids from age five onwards got interested in tech, which was the real win.
Brenda: That’s amazing.
Anu: And the girls especially got interested in tech. And Girl Scouts, plug to them, they have a badge now for tech and innovation. And some of my girls ended up joining the Girl Scouts, they went to tech academies and AI summer camps. Like this was just, when you are around like-minded kids.
Brenda: That’s right.
Anu: This is where it all begins. And some of these kids actually went to the United Nations and gave their keynote in the big hall on blockchain for impact how crypto can be used to solve SDGs. So this is where, yeah, this is like, next level.
Brenda: Wow. It is next level. I mean, so one important thing like for, for you and me and, and the things that we do is that, getting involved with crypto got these students, especially the girls involved with tech and that, you know, that’s of course where my heart is anyway. But it also shows sort of the connectedness of, of creativity. And tech and people finding out what they can build. So, you’re making these little builders, they’re like you said, from five, right?
Anu: Yeah.
Brenda: Five years old. That’s amazing. But you’re also making leaders because they’re, you said giving keynotes at the UN.
Anu: Yes. I say that comfortably because the same kids said, you know what? It’s great that we have tech, but what about these kids on the islands? Let’s go train them so they can train each other. And so, we went to University of West Indies and we worked with some of the students that were in college that wanted to teach the kids in high school and middle school, and we had a surprise visit from Prime Minister Mia Motley. So, these kids were actually teaching the Prime Minister how to build a blockchain rig.
It was just like, it’s amazing because their little hands, you know, to get into that, into the like little screws and things like that. And, and it’s a way for world leaders before they start talking about policy making, let’s talk about who’s going, who is this going to impact and how, how are the next generation going to participate? Because these kids are the digital natives. They see nothing but financial inclusion and why not lead this?
Brenda: Amazing, amazing. So, it started out as an educational initiative where you are going to teach kids about crypto, and you wanted to take it further. Can you talk about what that looked like?
Anu: So, I used to go to a lot of crypto conference in the beginning. They had amazing parties. And I actually met a number of women in crypto, we had our own community of brilliant, brilliant, amazing, beautiful inside, outside, socially conscious women that were part of the, the original scene before COVID. And one of the women that I had met was a mom, she had three kids.
And I was speaking with her and I said, look, I’m thinking of doing crypto for kids in Laguna Beach, would you be interested in joining? She’s like, yeah, I’ll bring my three kids, and I even have a developer that has got these kids of his own. And he may want to bring one of them and we can think about building a game. She had a background in gaming and so she said this could be a good way to teach kids because they’re doing games,
Brenda: Right.
Anu: And, and it’s digital and we’re talking about digital money. So like, the concept just came about organically, and then this gentleman was like, I have the perfect idea, I want to work on this. And started to send me screenshots of what he thought it could look like. And I said, excellent, let’s just go ahead and build this. And we said, can we get it ready within like a month or two? And he’s like, yeah, no problem.
Brenda: Can you tell us more about what you created?
Anu: Yes. So, we wanted a visual that could demonstrate what is a crypto. And so, it was a game called Krypto 4 Kids, K4K. It was an animated game for kids, and they would make their own token, and it’s like a squishy token or a funny token or whatever, like emojis that you have.
Brenda: Mm-hmm.
Anu: And then you play this game and at the end you win X number of tokens and you can donate it to causes. And it was strictly educational at the time, there was no real crypto. It’s a play game. It’s like, let’s just see who donates to what cause.
Brenda: You knew at some point you were likely going to need a partner and you were, you’re going to find a partner and partner up and, and you did. Can you talk about what that looked like?
Anu: The sponsors? It was, that company was one of the early crypto companies. But was the one that had all of their branding, everything. So, it was the president, said, I want to build this. So, came in and then they brought him on.
Brenda: The developer that, that was there, so, he, he worked for the sponsors?
Anu: Yeah, he was part of the team. And he had an independent company that was contracted by them.
Brenda: So, all of this is going on and the kids were having the time of their lives.
Anu: Yes.
Brenda: Everything seemed fine on the surface, right?
Anu: Yes, yes.
Brenda: The company that you were partnering with started to have some issues.
Anu: Yes.
Brenda: So, Anu, I know this is not fun, but can you put yourself back in that moment when you realized the app was not working?
Anu: So right after we came back from the UN, the app was working fine. And then, we would always demo it to people, we would share it. And I saw on Apple Store that it’s not pulling up, something was wrong with the app. I’m like, what happened to sponsor? No one really knows what happened. They lost a lot of money. I contacted the gentleman who built the app for us, he was contracted by the company, he had six kids under the age of six. Why would this dad, you know, like.
Brenda: Mm-hmm.
Anu: Do something that wasn’t proper? And he had left the company, because he knew something was wrong, decided it was unethical what they were doing, and he left. And I had contacted the president of the company and I said, I don’t understand, like, you’ve built this for the kids and like now it doesn’t work, and everybody’s expecting to learn from this.
And we, we invested in this company. She couldn’t tell me until she left the company because she was bound by NDAs and things like that. So the whole thing fell apart. And I’m like, how am I going to go back and tell our children?
Brenda: So, how did Anu break the news to the rest of the Crypto 4 Kids families? And how did Anu and Aria answer the question of whether the K4K tokens could be shared with young people in need? That’s all coming up after the break. Don’t go away.
Take us back to the moment when you learned everything might fall apart.
Anu: So, when the app wasn’t working and the company itself wouldn’t respond to messages, and then they’re like, we need to talk to our lawyer, that’s when I knew that there’s a problem. Because if you can’t tell me openly, and then I’m like, let me talk to the founder. And I’m like, we built this beautiful project for kids. You got the banners, you got the merch, and you got the PR out of this. But the kids basically were the ones that believed in, in all of this. And if you’re going to cheat kids, it’s pretty bad, like kind of everything that you said you were building this company for.
I was upset about what, what this would teach our children like number one. You all got excited and this thing was something that’s going to be transformational, change the world. And I’m like, how am I going to go back and tell them? And so, each of the moms like that was supporting us, I reached back out and said, this is what happened. So, such and such is no longer involved. I want to be open with you and transparent with you. And everyone was in the blockchain space. This is the one thing I did correctly. So, they’ve seen shenanigans and they’ve seen crypto companies not work, and they’ve seen people that genuinely are committed to the cause and something didn’t work.
And sadly, the kids that were involved, they learned how to build the rig in a weekend. They learned how to work together in a weekend. They learned leadership and they learned the whole premise of crypto. But they also learned about failure. What happens when things don’t go as planned? It’s not your fault, you know, if, if the foundation isn’t strong with the crypto company, it’s going to break. And did we ever work with that company again? No. Did the president of the company leave? Yes.
Is she doing something else with her life? Absolutely. Are the kids scarred by this? I think there were, like the five to 10 year olds were just like, oh, it was a fun weekend like camp. Not completely scarred, but they did learn about unethical companies and behavior. Did they learn about tech? Absolutely. Did they learn about the power of what could happen to crypto when done correctly? Absolutely. So, there were some wins in this and there were some losses in this. I think the wins were bigger than the losses, luckily.
Brenda: Well, and I think, you know, if, if we think about when failures happen, if you talk to people who have had success after success after success, and their first failure is at 30, it’s a much harder pill to swallow because you’ve had that repetition for so long, you think that that’s how it’s always going to be. And it’s harder to, to come back from that emotionally, right?
Anu: Yeah. Yeah.
Brenda: I think what I think the fact that even though it was unfortunate that the students had that full cycle opportunity, with the muscle that they were able to build as part of that project, they know what they can do.
Anu: Correct.
Brenda: So, I want to ask you about the product that you introduced me to when we met called SHEQONOMI. Talk to us about SHEQONOMI.
Anu: Yes. So SHEQONOMI started as a homeschooling project and it was one day when Zoom school stopped working, Google Classroom stopped working. If you remember those days when we were all homeschooling our children. And my daughter said, Mama, I, I have to tell you something. Please sit down, I don’t want you to be upset. And I said, what is it? And she said, well, I don’t think I can make it to fourth grade at this rate. Teachers are confused, moms are furious, and kids are scared. And many of us don’t know what’s going to happen to us next week. And how are we supposed to get to fourth grade like this?
Brenda: Wow.
Anu: And I said, well, it’s not, it’s not about you. It’s like, I’m, I think you’re going to be fine. You’ll, you’ll, like, you’ll go back to school. Just watch your Netflix eat your Papa Johns. But I’m really concerned about the kids that don’t have wifi or don’t, they don’t have computers. What do you think’s happening to them? And she said, I don’t know, what’s happening to them? And I said, well, they’re, they’re probably being sold. They’re probably being trafficked. And if they’re lucky, their, their parents have found someone nice and they’re, they’re getting married off and they’re your age.
And this isn’t, in many countries, this is what happens. This is the reality. And we can’t ignore it. We can’t like not talk about it. And so, she just like stood there in shock and said, that’s not a choice. Like tears in her eyes, she’s like, we have to do something about this. We have to help them. And I said, okay, well what do you suggest we do? And she said, well, we’ve got tokens in the Krypto 4 Kids’ wallet. Can we send it to them? Mama, can they, can they go to school? Can we share? Can we all get, can we all help each other out? We’ve got, everybody can send them the tokens.
And I said, that’s not so simple. Even if you shared everything, there’s no way for them to receive it. And then she looks at me and she’s like, well, you can fix this, right? As a kid would do. And I, I was just like. I don’t know how to answer this Aria like, I’m not sure how to tell you this. She’s like, well, I know what you’re going to say. You’re going to call your team in India because every time something breaks, you call them, and they always know what to do. And, and so I said, well, maybe you should, maybe you should ask, this is a big one, this is a big problem, and they’ll know how to answer, give you a good answer.
So, she calls the person that we trust the most and he’s like the, the nicest, nicest human. And I said, Aria has something she needs to ask you, and it’s kind of important. He’s like, what is it? And she said, you know, my mom said this is happening. Girls are losing their education and they can’t go back to school. They don’t have any way to learn. Is this true? And he said, yes, it’s already happened. But it’s not because the parents want like to take away their education. It’s like, what other choice do they have? And they have no savings and they’re already like, they’re just, they don’t have the means to support the, the education.
So she said, well, my mom said the wallet that you made me, if you can figure out a way for it to accept the tokens, we can all share and other people can also help. Is there a way to share? So, he said, let, gimme some time. I’ll think about it, I’ll talk to the people on my team. And if there’s a way to help, we will fi, we will, we will come back to you and let you know. I’ll call you tomorrow. So, he calls the next day and he is like, I think we figured it out. There is a solution, but, but the challenge that we’re going to have is that these phones, right, don’t work in the villages. It’s these phones. And these phones are not the ones with data. They happen to be the ones that work with wifi because the connectivity is very tricky.
Brenda: I remember the first time you showed me that, yes, they look like tiny little Apple phones.
Anu: Toy phones!
Brenda: They’re like little, these little things and you’re like, how can anything go on something that small that doesn’t have its own internal data line?
Anu: So, he’s like, we have to fit it on a screen like this big. And we have to figure out how to do this so that it generates a token. So, what we suggest is that we take your show, Women Investing in Women and Girls, which was started in 2014 with a Skype line, think of creativity here. And my babysitter was the co-host at the time, the nanny was the producer. And we had Aria say, welcome to the show, thank you for joining us.
And we would call UN Women, UNICEF, Intel Women and Girls. We even called Princess Reema bint Bandar Al Saud, who is the current Saudi ambassador to the US, with her daughter in the middle of a desert storm on a Skype line to get these interviews. And talk about mics not working and connectivity, but somehow we got the recordings and Voice America kids, it’s still playing on their network until today.
Brenda: Wow.
Anu: So, what the team in India had said is what we’ll do is instead of just having people listen, we’re going to reward them. So, it’s listen, learn, and earn. So, every time you like, share, follow, you get a point. We create a system. And then these points go into the wallet that we created for Krypto 4 Kids. And what will happen is we can record activity engagement, and then you can cash those out for digital gifts.
You can get food, water, vaccines, tampons, like what do you need for like, feminine products for these girls, merch, books, whatever it may be. But what we’ll do is we’ll pilot it on your, on your podcast and you go and work on getting us more content and we’ll work on the backend. And at the time I said Aria, I’m going to ask him how long this is going to take. And we asked him, you know, what’s your timeline? Six weeks? How much is it going to cost?
He gave me a number and I said, okay, well, I’ll get back to you in an hour and let me talk to Aria and see what she says. And I said, you were right. He can’t help us. But the question is, you know, I’ve got some savings set aside since the day you were born. I said, send you to whatever college you wanted, you want to go to, and it’s your money. You do whatever you want with it.
Brenda: Wow.
Anu: And she just said, mama, if, if it gives these kids hope, take the money. I’ll find my way. And literally it took her a split second to say, let’s give, let’s give them a chance, and I believe in these guys, I believe in you, we’ll sit here and do this together. So, every day we would call five to 10 podcasts and say, would you like to submit your feed? We’re doing this project on this experimental app that’s going to reach people that can’t read in a village or wherever, and help kids go to school. Would you, would you like to submit your podcast?
And that started four years ago. Or no, it tell you, five years ago now. And what’s happened since then is we gave the team the money, they got it to work on the prototype. But then we had to build it again on the 3G, 4G 5G, get everything connected, and we had applied for an Islamic development bank, COVID innovation competition. 5,000 applications, 175 countries, 30 winners, seven women.
And we actually won the prize that had Saudi, Oman, UAE, Bangladesh, Indonesia, and Oman, the Sultan of Oman. So, we had five countries that said, we’ll come in and get you off the ground and go and build this for all of our Islamic states, 56 of them with different languages. We’re now in 65 languages, 175 countries, 5,000 curated podcasts. We’re still kicking, and the goal is this is going to become even bigger,
Brenda: Right, I mean, just the, the pathway from beginning to end and the creativity, all have a common kernel, which is the heart caring about what happens to other people. And you’ve seen both of those projects grow outsized because of an idea which was to serve. And the impact that it’s having on lives across the world is, is amazing.
And by the way, B The Way Forward is now a proud podcast that is on the platform as well. So excited. So excited. I mean, could you have seen that what you started with your daughter, with Krypto 4 Kids, could you, could you have seen that it would be repurposed in this way?
Anu: Never in a million years did, I mean, it wouldn’t have happened had it not been for the seven-and-a-half-year-old. It’s just like, why do I get a chance and they don’t? This is my problem. And I told her, I’m, it’s not your problem. You don’t have to do anything. And she’s like, no, it is my problem. It’s not fair. Like why does it take a child to say it’s not fair to build in this way? It’s because she knows that if, if they don’t get this opportunity, something bad could happen to them, and that’s not right.
Brenda: And they, but the innocence of a child, the, the value of, of the whole scenario because was not just the, your amazing child who, you know, Aria for president by the way. But she had an amazing mama who kept, who didn’t tell her what she couldn’t do. Right?
You didn’t confine her to some standard that would have tamped down what she believed was possible and because she believed it was possible and you gave her the space to believe it, look at what, look at what is happening. And I think it’s an amazing example for all of us, not just those of us who might be, you know, have a, a, a daughter, but also for those of us who have our own ideas before we start talking ourselves out of what can’t be done.
Anu: Mhmm. Correct.
Brenda: I think it’s the que, the right question is, what if we could do this? Which then connects you to collaborators. And because one of us can’t do it alone necessarily, but together. Bringing our gifts, our disparate gifts together can really change the world. And that’s what you and Aria have done. Can you just quickly tell us, give us an example of the impact on someone on your platform who has participated, who’s joined SHEQONOMI, what’s their life like now that they’ve been part of the platform?
Anu: So I would say in terms of, in terms of users, it’s, it’s getting into new markets first and foremost. It’s getting your podcast to listeners that did not have access before. And I’ve had some people say, I’ve seen a spike in India at 3:00 AM on a Sunday. We’ve seen spikes in like Bangladesh, right now on the iOS we’re seeing a huge spike in Singapore. Somebody’s checking us out in Singapore, which is great. And, and then in terms of the, the way that this builds, it’s all by referrals at this point.
Because we want good people and we want patient people and know that this is like we’re all building together. We give a mission for referrals. The model is evolving such that producers can get involved, VAs can get involved, podcasters can make money after this, they can make referrals and, and, and get referral income. So, it’s really pay it forward. It’s really let’s collaborate. It’s really like find everyone that can benefit.
And then what we haven’t talked about is training. So, if somebody wants to become a podcaster, we, we’ve met people that can actually do virtual trainings for people that want to come in and learn skills. So again, once you skill these women, it’s a new wave of earning income. Could be graphic design, it could be editing, it could be cover, it could be so many different things. But digital skilling.
Brenda: It’s amazing. And, and you know, it’s only, it feels like it’s still only the beginning.
Anu: It is. A hundred percent.
Brenda: So, a hundred percent. So, we know that the founder journey comes with many ups and downs as we talk about dealing with setbacks with various founders on the show, do you have any words of wisdom to share when it comes to dealing with the bumps in the road?
Anu: There’s going to be many. There’s going to be, like, accept, expect 10 times as many failures as your successes or more. And you need to have a very good support system around you, otherwise you will collapse. And that’s just me being honest and very direct. And your why has to be like the biggest why ever. And, and, and without you, how is this thing going to ever happen? You have to like believe it with your heart and soul and every cell in your body. And if you can come up with that conviction, you’ll withstand any sort of failure.
And you will make money appear where it doesn’t exist. And things will happen because you willed them too, which is what continues to happen in my case, is like, I need this person, and boom, that person shows up. And it’s been happening again and again. Even you, like, I, when I met you, I was like, I’m just going to sit at this table and eat my sushi. That was, that was the goal, is like, I’m just going to sit and eat my, and then, you know what happens, like, two seconds later you appear. So!
Brenda: Yeah. And, and it’s, it is amazing how that, how that works. I can say the same for me. There were, there were times when I was working on an initiative in the past where the question that I would ask myself and as, as it pertains to your why is what will happen if I don’t do this?
Anu: Yes.
Brenda: And the answer was never good. And so I had to do it. And when you have to do it, then what you’ll find is things happen. You meet people, you’re connected to people, and you’re connected to people who get your why. Their why is similar, and things happen in ways that you never could have imagined.
So, I knew, I mean, we could talk about this all day. We hardly scratch the surface in some of the amazing things that you do.
Anu: Thank you.
Brenda: Just thank you so much for your ingenuity. Thank you for inspiring your daughter and so many other daughters and people out there just with the stick-to-itiveness that, that you exhibit in everything that you touch. And, just so excited that you joined us on the show today.
Anu: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Brenda: Alright, who’s ready to join the Aria for President campaign with me? I mean, seriously, that is an impressive kid. And after getting to know her mom a knew, it’s so easy to see why. When Anu first told me this story in Abu Dhabi, I knew I had to bring it to you all, and I’m so grateful she agreed to share it. There’s a lot of kernels of wisdom in her and Aria’s journey from Crypto 4 Kids to SHEQONOMI. Here are three of my favorites.
Number one, homework is the antidote to fear. Yeah, I know homework can be a loaded word, but Anu’s point here is really worth considering. When you’re nervous about something new, a technology like crypto or AI, a promotion at work; that feeling of fear comes from the unknown, and the antidote is simple. Make it known. Do your homework. Talk to experts. Read from trusted sources. Even a little bit of research can turn a monster under your bed into something manageable. Knowledge is power. Might be a little cliche, but that’s only because it’s true.
Number two, lead with what if. I love this. It’s great parenting from anu, so major points there, and it’s an amazing tool for all of us. So often our brains default to finding the roadblocks. We list all the reasons an idea can’t work. I knew, and Aria do the opposite. They start by asking, what if it could work? It’s a total reframe. You begin with the boldest possible vision, assume it’s achievable, and then you simply work backwards to figure out the steps to get there. It’s about making possibility, your starting point, not your final destination.
And finally, number three, your why is your fuel. Being a founder or really doing anything difficult is a rollercoaster. There will be days that you just want to quit. It’s over. And in those moments, Anu is right. Your why is what really keeps you strapped in for the ride. If you’re just doing something because it’s trendy or you think it’s something that your industry wants to see, that motivation. It’s going to burn out fast. But if you ask yourself, what happens if I don’t do this? And the thought of that failure upsets you on a cellular level, well that’s it. That’s the fire. That’s the fuel that will get you through anything.
Now, if you want to know more about Anu Bhardwaj, we’ll have links for you in our show notes. And like I mentioned during the interview, B The Way Forward is on the platform too. So, download the app and give us a listen there. That’s it for this season, but we’ve got over 50 episodes to Tide You over featuring conversations with incredible women like Janelle Monae, Brittany Baretto, Dr. Mary Claire Haver, Dr. Joy Buolamwini, Vlada Bortnik, Dr. Sasha Luccioni, Timnit Gebru, and so many more.
And we’ll be back with new episodes after Grace Hopper Celebration 25 as always. If you enjoyed our discussions, then please follow B The Way Forward wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you can, I’d appreciate it if you could take a moment and rate and review the show. It really helps other people discover these conversations. And of course, you can also watch video episodes of this podcast on the AnitaB.org channel on YouTube for more information on how you can be the way forward, visit AnitaB.org.